Amber Stitt [00:00:00]:
Hello, and welcome to Pathways. I am your host, Amber Stitt, and today we welcome Limor Bergman Gross to the show today. Welcome, Limor.
Limor Bergman Gross [00:00:08]:
Hi, Amber. Pleasure being here today.
Amber Stitt [00:00:10]:
Now, you are an engineering leader, but what that means is over 20 years, you've been an engineer, a manager, director, mentor. That's pretty impressive.
Limor Bergman Gross [00:00:21]:
Yes, thank you.
Amber Stitt [00:00:23]:
I know that you work hard to help people instill confidence, looking at each individual in a unique way. My focus as a first step in my podcast, as we call the Pathways of Peak Performance, is to focus on talents and really let ourselves shine in our unique abilities and where we're talented and not to downplay who we are. Can you share with us really where you started seeing the need to build that confidence and empower others in your journey as an engineer?
Limor Bergman Gross [00:00:53]:
Yes, I started seeing it, I mean, obviously on myself, because a lot of times I wasn't confident enough to ask for what I wanted to be vocal about, about things that I didn't like, different biases, or microaggressions against me. And the more I grew into leadership, I also saw that with others that I was leading with women. And also when I started mentoring in 2017, I also saw that with women I was mentoring.
Amber Stitt [00:01:20]:
There's something that I share on the podcast where I bring a bit of energy at times into the room. I've had people celebrate that, but then I've also had people along the way, I see it now, where they aren't as appreciative. And in the corporate world, I've had even women be almost an antihero to the female because of maybe competitive nature and different things. I think when you do the work and you work with a coach, a mentor, that can help you bring that out of your shell. And I think when you share your innate abilities with others and show that leadership, it's really important for others to know that about you because that could be all reciprocated and you've talked about breaking through the glass ceiling. Is there anything specific that was just, like, the catalyst that you were like, "Okay." Outside of engineering as a profession, in that managerial role, where you wanted to do more?
Limor Bergman Gross [00:02:10]:
Yes, absolutely. So the more I grew into leadership positions, I wanted to make an impact. You know, when I started my career, I was, you know, most of the times, I was the only woman there. And the more I grew into higher roles, the fewer women that I saw, and I wanted to change that. And I started doing, you know, that within the companies I worked at, I tried to hire more women. I tried to help to advance. And then I started mentoring women and I realized, well, I can make a greater impact if I just focus on that.
Amber Stitt [00:02:44]:
Yeah. Do you think women deal with a lot of imposter syndrome?
Limor Bergman Gross [00:02:48]:
Many do. I think that also men do, but women more so. And you'll be surprised, or maybe not, I don't know. That I see that, no matter how senior and successful women are.
Amber Stitt [00:03:02]:
Okay, so where you think women should have been more confident because they've made it, they're up in that higher level professionally. It still can be there, is what you're saying?
Limor Bergman Gross [00:03:11]:
Absolutely. Up to CEO's. You know, I've seen that some women feel very, you know, they don't feel comfortable getting praises or getting recognition. And then when we dive deeper, they say, "Well, I don't feel like I deserve it."
Amber Stitt [00:03:25]:
Isn't that wild?
Limor Bergman Gross [00:03:26]:
So this is, like crazy.
Amber Stitt [00:03:28]:
I know. Men would not say that.
Limor Bergman Gross [00:03:30]:
Men would never say that, especially if they're successful.
Amber Stitt [00:03:34]:
Right. I think the more movement and more fellowship we can have with each other to say that, it can be a very common thing, but surrounding yourself around a community that can help you work yourself out of that, because there's going to be rough days. I suppose that it could be more prevalent to feel that way, but just working through that and knowing you're not alone definitely can get you out of that, hopefully.
Limor Bergman Gross [00:03:55]:
Absolutely.
Amber Stitt [00:03:56]:
Do you feel that even if we stay with that topic, is it more apt to have lack of leadership with remote teams, or do you think because you've seen kind of both sides of the coin here. I know that a lot of companies in the United States are moving people back into the office, and a lot of people are saying, you know, it should be in the production, not so much the hours, nine to five or whatever we say. And I know that the US might be different than other companies internationally. Do you see differences between remote teams and leadership versus in person?
Limor Bergman Gross [00:04:25]:
Definitely it's different. I think that the world is changing and we need to be flexible. I believe, I'm a great believer in flexibility. I think that when you work remote, you need to be more thoughtful about building trust and relationship than when you are working in office. Because in office those things are coming more naturally. You have the opportunity to see people, to see how they came in the morning to the office. I mean, yeah, does their face look like they have something going on?
Limor Bergman Gross [00:04:54]:
And you have the opportunity to connect to maybe, "Hey, let's grab a coffee," or "Hey, let's grab lunch." "Let's just chat." You don't have those opportunities when you work remote. So you have to create them, sometimes a little bit artificially, but you have to make a conscious effort to build trust and to build relationships.
Amber Stitt [00:05:13]:
Yeah, that's interesting. I'm one of those higher productive ones that would, say, stopping and having the coffee chat, you know, I like to just get in and get to work. But if someone saw that and said, "Okay, she's got something going on, she's going to go get to work." Versus being online and not having that moment to kind of settle, it can be off putting to other people that do need a little bit more facetime. If you're really remote, you might have to just take a moment and feel like it's okay that I am reaching out to the team and just spending an extra couple minutes on chat, or text, or whatever the modes are, just to check in with people. Probably can be super helpful just to set the tone for the day.
Limor Bergman Gross [00:05:50]:
Yeah. And you can do other things. Like, we used to have happy hour every Friday afternoon to just chat, and it was like whoever wanted joined and whoever didn't, didn't. And it was just to chat on different things about the plans for the weekend and random things. So, yes, people need that space. And I'll be honest with you, Amber, some people don't like working remote, and that's okay. Some people really need either...that's the clear separation between work and life.
Limor Bergman Gross [00:06:21]:
They need to know that they are coming to a specific location. That's where work happens. And when you enter your home, that's where your leisure is.
Amber Stitt [00:06:30]:
Happy place.
Limor Bergman Gross [00:06:31]:
Yeah. So it's different for everyone.
Amber Stitt [00:06:33]:
I know. I agree. I'm one of those that can work anywhere, but I like to have the quiet time. But I do know some of my strategic partners. They need to get in that office and just have that separate space. And sometimes that's where you can find your quiet time away from your spouse, or your children, or your animals, dogs, or whatever.
Limor Bergman Gross [00:06:50]:
Yeah.
Amber Stitt [00:06:51]:
Some people just have to set that environment to have that success there. When it comes to that team camaraderie and doing some of those virtual, like you said, a happy hour, or in person, too. There's that social element. I know that when I work with my nonprofit, we need to give opportunities for Zoom, virtual, maybe the happy hour, or education, but there is that social element that people can crave and need. I think that could possibly build a little more confidence within teams if people can have that interaction and show up and see each other just outside of that work environment. Are there any other ideas, or tips, that you have just utilized to build more confidence in yourself as a person on the team?
Limor Bergman Gross [00:07:32]:
I think being always helping and supporting others. You mentioned nonprofits, so anything related to giving, I am a true believer that when you give something back, no matter if it's in the workplace or outside, it helps you build confidence because you feel like you have something to give to others. So you can mentor people that are maybe junior than you, you can just be helpful to others and that will, you know, it will have multiple benefits, both creating those relationships with others, but also building your confidence that you're capable, that you have something to give to others.
Amber Stitt [00:08:09]:
It makes me think of your focus also. You do help people in their personal branding and kind of branching out online. When you do some of the nonprofit and the community work, you're doing that with other people. I'm not saying personal branding, like doing community service, to get something out of it, but when you're looking at organizations that you're a part of, I don't think there's an easier way to get out on social media for that personal branding more than doing it with other people. And I know you specialize in giving some tips for people just to kind of get out there and use resources that are available to us. So we could talk about that a little bit. Is there anything that would be a great takeaway that people can just consider today if they want to stand out a little bit in their own community, but on social media?
Limor Bergman Gross [00:08:51]:
On social media. So I am very active on LinkedIn. That's my main platform, because that's where my audience is. So I think relating to what I said about giving back, think about sharing whatever knowledge you have to the world and sharing in whatever way you feel comfortable. It can be creating articles, it can be a short post, it can be an image, it can be video, whatever you feel comfortable with. And I know that for people, especially introverted like myself, at first it's very intimidating. You feel very uncomfortable, but over time it just becomes part of who you are, right? So I'm just doing it regularly and it's just like, "Okay, that's something I do."
Amber Stitt [00:09:38]:
I know that we saw a lot of people get on the bandwagon a bit around COVID. You almost had to at times just to get yourself involved, even if we couldn't see each other. I think there's so many resources now for the introvert but the extrovert that needs, also just any of us, time management sometimes just being able to have that community vibe on social media, there's some negatives to it, we know, but I think there's no easier way just to connect with people. And you can do it in a purposeful way.
Limor Bergman Gross [00:10:07]:
Absolutely. And if you want to connect with people, just find a community that you like and just give back. So, for example, I'm passionate about women. There are a lot of online communities that are related to women, or women in tech, and you can just join those communities and start, you know, being active there, start responding and helping and providing advice and support.
Amber Stitt [00:10:31]:
Is that how you found, even as a self proclaimed introvert, is that really part of the network you've built is utilizing some of those resources online?
Limor Bergman Gross [00:10:39]:
Yes, absolutely. When I started mentoring, for example, in 2017, I started building a network of people that I didn't work with, right? I mean, I just mentored them, and I connected with the founders of this company that I'm now working with them. So definitely. And now, you know, Amber, podcasting is a great vehicle for me to meet people like yourself. So I have also my own podcast, and that's a wonderful way to meet incredible people.
Amber Stitt [00:11:08]:
So I know you talk a lot about working with teams. We've talked about remote work. We talk about the social, this connection, this network. I work a lot with physicians, and when they're coming out of training, a lot of times they don't have a LinkedIn picture profile. They just don't have time. They don't care. They're just so focused. Then we get out to the timeframe.
Amber Stitt [00:11:27]:
They have to start looking at contracts and where they might want to travel to. I know it's changed a little bit. This is years ago, I would say, "Get your network built out on LinkedIn and some of those other professional places, because you never know what opportunities are out there and a connection might find you that job and that destination. Or maybe there's that very special, very unique position, and you just wouldn't know about it unless you had a friend over in that area. Just give them a direct message through maybe LinkedIn." So I've always been really pushing for that. Is there anything else you could share about a person that is maybe loving what they do? They are working within a team. Any tips to really help them stand out and shine wherever they're at on that team from a business perspective?
Limor Bergman Gross [00:12:10]:
Yeah. So there are two different things. So there is the external brand that you build on social, right? And LinkedIn is one avenue, and that is super relevant for me and for people I help. And there's an internal brand within the company you work at. And there could be a linkage. I would say, if you want to build a brand in the company you work at, you always have to think about problems and how you solve those problems, especially problems that no one else is solving. And what people are usually being stuck at is that they are really confined by the role, by their job description, and not thinking out of the box.
Limor Bergman Gross [00:12:51]:
And this is how leadership is exercised at its best. Just seeing problems and offering solutions. Whether you solve everything yourself or just, you bring other people together and do that, that's how you stand out, being willing to do something that no one else is thinking about, or doing, that's how you build your brand internally. That's the best way to build your brand.
Amber Stitt [00:13:15]:
And that word, personal brand, might be a little bit of a buzzword. I think it's showing leadership, and you never know who's watching and having that consistent, professional leadership. It might be for yourself, but I think it could go a number of places. Sometimes people say, "That's above my pay grade." And they might say, "Qell, it's not during my work hours to do certain things." And I'm certainly not saying, don't have that balance of, you know, don't be underpaid. But sometimes, if you can provide that solution and just step a little bit further, do a little bit more, I think that's where it really just pushes that dial, and you never know who's watching. And that's where I think a lot of those unique opportunities can come from in your career.
Limor Bergman Gross [00:13:52]:
Yeah. And, you know, Amber, the sentence that tears me off the most is, "It's above my pay grade."
Amber Stitt [00:13:59]:
Yeah, I knew it!
Limor Bergman Gross [00:14:01]:
I hate this sentence. This is like, if you say that, what does it tell me about you? That either you're a very fixated kind of person, you have a fixed mindset, or you're just not willing to do anything that is not listed in your job description. That's not a good thing.
Amber Stitt [00:14:20]:
Yeah. I feel like there's been a lot of that. Culturally, I'm certified with Gallup's Clifton Strengths. But when we look at the Gallup research, there's some cultural things happening. I do feel like people want to stick within those hours, and they don't want to be working beyond. But I think if you really want to innovate and stand out, you can't just put everything into the minute of the day. Like, you were even talking about articles, or posts, and different things people might do online, share with the world, things that, you know, so you can help and have that giving attitude. It really gets shut off when people have that mindset at work.
Amber Stitt [00:14:52]:
Have you had to work among any of these types of people in the past?
Limor Bergman Gross [00:14:55]:
Yes, of course. I mean, we all do. And, you know, I mean, that's okay. I'll tell you something. It's good to have a diverse team, and sometimes it's good to have those people. Although it sounds kind of weird, but the reason for that is that a lot of times the people with the fixed mindset that they are not willing to go above and beyond, they just want to do their job. You need them because you need those people who are there to do their job.
Limor Bergman Gross [00:15:22]:
If everyone that you work with, all of them are super passionate, super ambitious, everyone wants to thrive and grow, you may have some other challenges.
Amber Stitt [00:15:32]:
All visionaries, we need some execution. Just leveraging that. You don't want everybody the same.
Limor Bergman Gross [00:15:37]:
Yes, absolutely.
Amber Stitt [00:15:38]:
So there's some balance there for sure. As an engineer, has there been anything that's like a secret sauce that you've seen that you've applied in leadership? Because I don't know anything about that industry. Is there anything that puts you outside of, like, that engineering...like, is there anything that's unique to you that you want to share with about managing with an engineering background?
Limor Bergman Gross [00:15:59]:
First of all, it's learning. Always, always learning. I mean, as an engineer, you always have to learn. You have to adapt. You have to be willing to keep up to date with what's going on and not being afraid of a challenge, not being afraid of what you don't know, and not being afraid to say that you don't know something and acknowledge some things that you don't know and be willing to ask for help. And I think the same goes for leadership. You don't have to know all the answers. That's okay.
Limor Bergman Gross [00:16:27]:
You have to always keep learning and adapting and growing. And I think that my humility and ability to admit that I don't know something and be transparent about it is a strength. And I see that as a strength in other people. Rather than trying to always show that you know everything and be afraid to ask or admit what you don't know, I see that as a weakness.
Amber Stitt [00:16:49]:
Yeah. Having that awareness that you do, does that trickle into how you handle working within the team with performance issues? Is there any strategies there that having the awareness, looking at who you are and then understanding the person that's maybe different or opposite performance might not always be what we think, it might not be just a metric, it could be something else happening?
Limor Bergman Gross [00:17:09]:
Yeah, there are a lot of things there. I mean, when you think that there are performance issues, first of all, you really have to be curious about the situation and unbiased as much as possible. And what you said, right? I mean, people that are different than us, a lot of times we expect people to perform the way we think they should based on our own core values. But everyone is different and everyone thinks differently. So we have to put our own mindset and biases aside and be willing to open our minds, open our hearts and be curious and understand what is going on with that person. Maybe they perform the way they are because that's how they think it should be done. So I'll give just a theoretical example, maybe I value speed and efficiency and someone else really value thoroughness and perfection.
Limor Bergman Gross [00:18:01]:
So everything takes more time for them because they invest a lot of times in testing and validating and making sure everything is super perfect. That gap caused me to think that this person is underperforming while they think they are performing very well because their standards are different. And just being curious and understanding why it takes so long and then realizing that there are gaps in the perceptions and then finding a way, a common way that we can move forward. That's the secret sauce. And not trying to assume that everyone is like you.
Amber Stitt [00:18:31]:
Yeah. So then you do have checkpoints with people then, so that you can get to that point on your team so you can have the conversation. Has that been something that you've been able to roll out on your teams?
Limor Bergman Gross [00:18:43]:
So obviously I don't manage right now, but when I used to, I was talking with people that they manage all the time and obviously we had a weekly one on one. And I am great believer in continuous feedback. I'm a believer in delivering feedback on time. When things happen, being transparent, always match expectations, leave assumptions behind. That's how I believe leaders should behave. And I'm a great opposer to the annual performance reviews.
Limor Bergman Gross [00:19:18]:
I think that they are really outdated.
Amber Stitt [00:19:20]:
The annual. This is just too long. So that's where I was curious because I know some teams will do a 904. I think it comes from a curriculum and a business book kind of a template. But giving that feedback, if you're waiting too long, then there's no time to turn it around or see if there's a better way, reason behind the thoroughness, like you said, with the person. So I think the open mindedness, too, I'm hearing that throughout your story and I'm going to link up how people can find you and work with you. Is there anything specific you want to share with people in your work and how you can help them?
Limor Bergman Gross [00:19:52]:
Yeah, sure. So I work mainly with leaders in tech because that's my area of expertise. That's the world I'm most familiar with. And I'm passionate about working with women and helping them. People can find me on LinkedIn. I think that's the best way, although I do have a website. But LinkedIn, that's the place that they can get to know me because I share content daily, almost daily, and I can help in various ways depending on what they need. So some come to me because they really want to make a change in their career and they need help realizing which way to go.
Limor Bergman Gross [00:20:24]:
Not that I will tell them, but help them explore what's the right path for them, or maybe multiple options. And some people come to me because they are stuck in their career and they really want to break some internal barriers that they have and breakthrough in their careers. Some people come to me because they have different challenges in their current role, especially in leadership, especially when you grow into higher levels. So I help them overcoming those kind of challenges. It really varies on the person.
Amber Stitt [00:20:52]:
Oh, that's awesome. And you can work globally, too, right?
Limor Bergman Gross [00:20:54]:
Yes, I do work globally. I work, I always like to say from Austria to Australia, like, because I do have clients in both countries. So it's like, think about the spectrum. So I'm kind of working globally.
Amber Stitt [00:21:07]:
This year I have found even more so than ever the importance of working with a mentor coach, or executive coach. I've done a deeper dive this year, personally. When you're talking about working with people, helping them through that transition, you won't say, "Hey, go take that job over there." But having that third party opinion, you are not going to be biased, certainly, because you're not tied to that person outside of that relationship. So I think it's so important because they can help shine a light on things that we can't see, and there's some beauty in that. But, you know, there's that outlet, too, that if something's a little bit more frustrating, you're able to help people through that transition and bring that confidence back in for the moment that they need to make that transition, or transformation. So I'm excited to share your work with my audience and we'll make sure that they'll be able to find you through the description boxes.
Amber Stitt [00:21:58]:
And I love your nature of just that calming presence, and I know that many people love that, too. So I really appreciate you being on the show today.
Limor Bergman Gross [00:22:06]:
Thank you so much, Amber. It's been great pleasure being here. Thank you so much for having me.
Amber Stitt [00:22:13]:
Thank you for joining us on today's episode of The Amber Stitt Show. For more information about the podcast, books, articles, and more, please visit me at: www.AmberStitt.com. Until next week, enjoy your journey at home, and at work. Thank you for listening!